Saturday, November 19, 2011

OWS HAS A WIKI PAGE




There is now a Wikipedia page for OWS. It's interesting. Most Americans have had a rising income since 1979 but the top 1% has gained 275% while the middle class has only gained 40%. Many of the protesters want socialism and are prepared to use violence to get it (31% think violence is acceptable). 98% think that civil disobedience is acceptable.

"On Oct. 10 and 11, the polling firm Penn, Schoen & Berland interviewed nearly 200 protesters.[43] Half (52%) have participated in a political movement before, 98% would support civil disobedience to achieve their goals, and 31% would support violence to advance their agenda. Most are employed; 15% are unemployed. Most had supported Obama; now they are evenly divided. 65% say government has a responsibility to guarantee access to affordable health care, a college education, and a secure retirement. They support raising taxes on the wealthiest Americans, and are divided on whether the bank bailouts were necessary.[43]

In the Wall Street Journal, Fox News political analyst and Clinton administration pollster Douglas Schoen wrote that the protesters reflect "values that are dangerously out of touch with the broad mass of the American people" and have "a deep commitment to left-wing policies: opposition to free-market capitalism and support for radical redistribution of wealth, intense regulation of the private sector, and protectionist policies to keep American jobs from going overseas," and that politicians who support them will be hurt in the 2012 elections.[43]"

It's hard to know what to do with all this information except to file it under part of the growing gap between opinions of America's future. I personally am for private enterprise and private property and don't think others should either be able to seize it or to occupy it. The whole movement was apparently started by a Canadian activist group.

I do think the richest people should help the poorest, but on the other hand they are already doing so. Only 53% of people pay taxes at all in this country. I think even the poorest person in America has access to food and shelter (there are people who don't get enough calories but that is a voluntary thing called anorexia). In general, we are eating too many calories. I know I am. I do look for artificial sweeteners such as Sucralose, aspartame, and Nutrasweet, and love them all, but some people claim they cause cancer.

As I see it, life is a gamble from beginning to end. You hope when you get out of bed to have a good day. You hope to eat something that's decent and won't make you sick. You hope when you open Facebook to be amused. You hope when you open any book to be entertained and hopefully enlightened. You hope when you start a business to have a profit. You hope when you invest in a company that there will be a return on the investment. It seems to me that OWS is about dissatisfied people who want government to take all the gambles/gambols out of life, and make government into a nanny that will never forget your meal or to wipe your butt and face (hopefully not with the same napkin).

There is a certain level of risk when you make a decision to get married or to take a job or to hire someone. You never know if your partner will cheat, or die, or get cancer, or turn mean and spend the whole day screaming at you in public. A boss might fire you or harass you or never give you any raise, and then suddenly you're old and stuck. In Lois Lowry's The Giver she posits a society in which all risk has been removed. People are basically zombies. Inconvenient children (children who cannot produce, or aren't smart) are killed off (released).

In a game such as basketball the top 1% produce all the baskets in the NBA. Very few of the country's basketball players ever make it to the NBA. Those few who can get in (probably less than 600 players at any one time) score almost all of the baskets. And they also make almost all of the money to be made. But if you say that everyone in America should split the baskets then it's hard to see how the competition would be improved, or the game itself would be improved. It's frustrating for some to think that they are not succeeding. Excellent businessmen like Donald Trump aren't made overnight. Most can't cut it. And yet people envy them, and think that it's easy. Writing is also a competitive enterprise. Many start blogs, and few are read. Few get comments. Most fold in a certain amount of time. Most writers will never have a book and if they do the book won't pay for itself, much less make a profit or a name for its author. Is this fair? It's a risk that almost everyone will fail at. Life itself is a risk from the inception (billions of sperm cells but only one arrives at the egg first). Life is risk.

Risk is the main problem perhaps. The protesters want to limit the profits of the upper classes in order to make their own lives risk-free by creating a better tax base. However, without companies that are producing profits, there are no taxes. So, it would seem that free enterprise would work better for everyone. But the enterprises would have to be free to fail, too. The Fannie and Freddie debacle in which loans were given out but in which there was no risk is what ruined the economy. The government bailout of Fannie and Freddie created an enormous tsunami of debt that wiped out many companies and threatened to take the US under. It damaged our credit rating. The government has to let businesses fail, and businesses have got to get back to taking risks. Insurance companies have to be free to set their own risk levels. If they screw up, they go under. Government should get out of business altogether and simply regulate and make sure that businesses are safe for the environment and that they are not unfairly creating monopolies, or cutting the actual throats of other businessmen and businesswomen.

It's not as if I myself love risk. I find it unnerving. When I eat I want maximum enjoyment with minimum calories. So I drink iced tea with aspartame. This means I get a sweet drink but also the risk of cancer. The risk I do without is the calories. The best bet is to stay within the recommended BMI. The iced tea companies are betting that I will bet in this way: drink sweet beverages without calories. I should resist, but I willingly for for this risk. I shouldn't, but I do.

If I started to bet another way, so would they. This proves that capitalism is a democracy, and I am in control. Under communism, there would only be one drink, and everyone would be forced to drink it, or die.

18 comments:

J A DeLater said...

Kirby, thanks for your posting and for the info on the OWS Wiki page.

I perused it a bit. It's informational, though, as expected, sparse space is given over to adverse criticisms, and there are what seem to be deliberate deceptions through omissions, e.g., this OWS Wiki claim of support from Polish Solidarity leader and former Polish president Lech Walesa:

"Former president of Poland and cofounder of the Polish Solidarity Movement, Lech Wałęsa, has expressed his support for Occupy Wall Street and is considering a visit to the site."

Nevertheless, after receiving more information about the radical organisations backing the protests, Walesa decided against supporting OWS by visting the site. This was a month ago.

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2011/10/lech-walesa-will-not-attend-ows-protests-after-learning-about-its-radical-far-left-bent/

roesch/voltaire said...

Yes I agree life is a risk, but what has that got to do with the shredding of the middle class by starting two unfunded wars and cutting taxes? As the CEO of Google stated on national TV during the morning news, the Republican plan has not produced jobs for the last ten years and the notion that regulations and taxes are what inhibits business is " a lie." This lie along with a corrupt relationship between finance and congress--Newt Gingrich's 1.6 million dollar history fee to made nice to congress for example, have well illustrated how little risk the rich take.

Kirby Olson said...

I don't know that we started the wars, or even that we finished them. Since 2008, at least, the economy has been in the hands of Obama. I doubt if he's ever created a single job of any kind in his whole existence. He just costs them.

Unemployment went way up on his watch, the debt has soared to the point that it has taken an act of Congress to allow it, and our credit rating has fallen for the first time in national history.

I have other friends who are voting for Ron Paul.

I like his economic sense, but he's too old (over 50% will not vote for a person over 72 -- while McCain was 72), and so, not sure if there's any hope for him.

but he's very interesting. He's the only person with his own ideas that I've seen to go that far up in the political circles.

I prefer people to be not quite that original. I want a follower of SOME traditions, who won't stir the pot so much that it explodes.

J A DeLater said...

Democrat supporters are fond lumping all the Bush years together, but that's just a partisan ploy. The economy and employment didn't really nosedive until 2008, but the Ds had firm control of Congress from the beginning of 2007 till early this year.

The D-engineered Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac housing debacle triggered the recession; then came the failed Obama administration Keynesian policies that worsened an already bad situation, though of course some of the vagaries of the world economy are outside even a centrally-planned economy man like the President. Whatever Gingrich's role in advising Freddie Mac, or the Chamber of Commerce for that matter, he says FM didn't take his advice drastically to cut back on subprimes and the like.

That Roesch/Voltaire didn't include the President as chief practitioner and beneficiary of "crony capitalism" is no small indicator of R/V's partisanship.

Sure, Tea Party supporters, like the OWS mobs, decry the corruptions of crony capitalism (involving a number of Ds and several Rs as well, as Peter Schweizer has recently documented--the chief offender for him is former Speaker Pelosi). But the composition and behavior of Tea Party supporters bear little comparison with that of the OWS crowds, composed mostly of lawless rabbles (over 4600 arrests already and counting . . .) with sizeable contingents of anarchists (for big government, mind), socialists, communists, deranged miscreants, and criminal scum ("racaille" to R/Voltaire).

jh said...

i may be wrong but the expression on the guys' phace in the photo is interesting...he seems right on the verge of saying

shit

or am i seeing things

are we questioning the legitimacy of discontent...i mean
it's all about feelings isn't it
i mean really

is nausea a feeling
or a thought

i can never tell

excuse i mus....


bath......room

aghgghghghghrrrrrrrphatooooeeeeee



sorry


where was i


we should be grateful for political movement in this country
grateful for conflict of interests
grateful that the political atmosphere can still tolerate things up to a point

however no telling how many security people were dispersed into the crowd

seems like we pay a lot of people a lot of money to represent security
what are we protecting
what do we fear

it looks as though we're protecting a profound insecurity

i notice more and more really large women who can barely stuff themselves into their security costumes walking around with big sticks and feigned smug authoritarian airs

why we take any of it seriously is beyond me

i think there's still plenty of bread
it's starting to smell mouldy
but who cares

cook it on a open fire it will taste good

pray jesus

jh

feminism has arrived

Kirby Olson said...

I suppose I see our billionaires as useful people. Gates and buffett are two of the three richest people in America. Not everyone can make the computers we use to type these messages. Why do we want to kill such people and give their money to the OWS crowd -- a useless bunch of marauding addicts and jerks who would just use the money for sex tourism. Then they want universal healthcare to take care of all the diseases they'd pick up around the world.

How this would help anyone is beyond me.

Not everybody wants to spend their whole day making useful products for sale, or finding lucrative markets. Most of us would rathe type useless messages like this, and think about the meaning of it all.

The billionaires are just useful people. They are the geese the lay the golden eggs. We should mollycoddle them, and give them tax breaks.

jh said...

billionairez zar fine
as long as they're willing to be taxed to up to 50% of their yearly earnings or at least give extensive money to philanthropic causes

nobody on earth except for me is worth a billion a year
and i reject all of it so that makes nobody

if bill gates can rein in his camel and guide it through the eye of needle then maybe i would recognize him as a valid citizen as it is he's a compelte aberration and about equal to a desperate mexican trying to reach a family in phoenix on the scale of relative worth

donald trump on the other hand is a spoiled brat with shit stains in his underwear and he doesn't even care he cares more about his hair

the occupy people needed something to do and they did something
i give them the benefit of the doubt i wonder what the literacy quotient is i suppose pretty high

i mean the teaparty people only read about guns and myopic christianity

i think they're all drinking shots in the closet now

people need to learn to embrace poverty
st francis set the paradigm

c'mon people now
smile on your brother
everybody get together
try to love one another right now

has anyone heard of urban camping

i guess it's the new big thing

i can't pay attention anymore

the protestant movement has run its course
the imposition of abstract discipline upon the map has led to widespread despair

survival of the greediest
darwinisht capitalism

we need to cultivate leisure

everyone

nap time

jh

Craig said...

Bloomberg channel ran a special on billionaire author J. K. Rowling last night. It said her first Harry Potter book was written while she was on public assistance, living on food stamps. People condemned her first book and wanted it banned because it encouraged kids to believe in magic and witchcraft. She suggested that on that basis the Wizard of Oz books should also be banned.

jh said...

i tend to think disney was a creep

at least the wizard of oz had an intellectual focus it was a sort of allegory
the man in the machine is an idiot
isn't that what it's all about

or was oz some god figure

enchantment is grand
but the plethora of quasi enchantment entertain ment
has meant a complete dumbing down
it's been used as a form of mind control
and the chilldren have all believed it
and they will one day run the whole world based on
harry potter

it became a child religion
harmless
perhaps
but at the same time
hardly stimulating
fodder for the distracted

o what do i know

all literature is boring
berryman said

the hunger for enchantment should frighten us some
i mean the world is imploding

help mister wizard

what's next what's next what's next what's next what's next what's next

jh

Craig said...

You can't really appreciate the Wizard of Oz books and why they're set in Kansas until you know who Ignatius Donnelly was and why his last novel, The Golden Bottle, was also set in Kansas. And you have to read The Master Key to understand who L. Frank Baum was.

My grandfather's youngest sister taught school in the Alaskan town where Sarah Palin was mayor. She met her husband there, a school teacher from Aberdeen, South Dakota, where L. Frank Baum lived when he wrote the first Oz book. They were married in Aberdeen, but moved to Glendale, California, after they had enough of Alaska.

Rowling, according to Wiki, is good friends with former British PM and Labour leader Gordon Brown and his wife, Sarah. I'll bet they all grew up reading George MacDonald, a big influence on both Donnelly and Baum.

Kirby Olson said...

Law enforcement seems to imply the term "force," unfortunately. The people around Zucotti Park want their park back. They are harassed and the smells and noise are apparently really bad. It isn't clear to anyone what the protesters want. "Occupy" is a fairly violent term. I don't want to get caught up in this whole problem since most of my friends are with the protesters. About 99% of them, at least. But protesters can be evil, and even be criminals from the ground up. At this point, I'm sick of the protests and the lack of clarity. The situation of the protesters in Syria is far more serious, and their goals are far more clear. If the protesters of OWS largely want a socialist government (most of them want a cradle to grave nanny state) I am not with them, mostly because you give up all your freedoms in that trade-off. Liberty or equality? I vote for liberty. I think there are people who aren't good at anything, or aren't good enough. Should they make as much as Warren Buffett or Bill Gates or economic superstars who can invent computers that we all use to type with? I doubt if we will ever see Bill Gates chatting at Facebook. He's busy creating useful products for all of us to use. Shouldn't he make more thna the rest of us as a result? I wish the bad people would go home and give the productive people in inner city neighborhoods a chance to sleep so that they can get up and work.

jh said...

i think it should be possible to live in poverty and retain dignity

people arent' that filthy

this would be a truly boring country if the people didn't get uppity and in your face once in awhile

it's like the movie network
expanded or inflated
intot he general public

here again i think pharmeceuticals in the water would work wonders

maybe these ows(ers are the kids who were drugged in gradeschool and they can't get the good drugs anymore and they don't know what's wrong but they know something's wrong the meds aren't right or something lots of people on meds these days i suppose some of them go off them and try other things but maybe these people are being authentic

they want local govt and local food
phuq the national agendas
and more leisure time

i'd settle for 8 month work year
4 months off

production sprodyuktshen

plastic doodads and superfluous things and crap they sell that nobody needs it's all stupid buying now let's at least admit that

i bet there are more cars than people
who can do the math

i've had it
i'm committed to saunas and cold plunges for the winter

rise up america
be loud be great be discontent be greedy be foolish with money it's the american way dialing for dollars is trying to find me
behind door number 3
it's really all just a game show isn't it
just a silly game show

i think we need to reward these ows- ers these are the kids who got all the positive reinforcenment techniques they need to be rewarded

i think they shou ld each get 50 bucks and then be asked to go home
and take free guitar lessons at guitar center


that would be a deal

ok gotta go

yowzaah

jh

J A DeLater said...

Kirby, I suppose the Occupy protesters and their fellow-travellers fancy making their mostly unfocused, absurd, or petulant demands is worth the cost in the damage, unhealthy squalor, criminality, and vice mostly others will have to pay for.

Kirby Olson said...

THe guy in the photo looks like he's being very insulting to the police officer. I don't think people should into the personal space of a police officer and address them in a mean way. At any rate, the police aren't making policy decisions. So they should just leave the police alone. Let them do their job. Be kind toward them.

jh said...

the police should not carry guns
they should see themselves less as an extension of the military and more in terms of humble public service...i'm not sure but i think we live in a police state now could it be true i hope not i hope everyone is running around in a tizzy in complete freedom but i think it's a police state i could be wrong

they let the police just do their jobs in the fifties with fire hoses

in the twenties they let the police just do their jobs by firing with guns upon relatively peaceful but perturbed working citizens

the police are frightened of the fear inherent in a fearridden nation..so they advocate for more guns

the spectre of firepower in the hands of the citizens of this country including the police is enough to suggest that the experiment in free govt and human pursuit of capitalistic freedom is a tentative thing at best...although if we manage to keep everyone thinking that more than enough is not quite enough then maybe we can keep things going for awhile


frack oph
the new survival game


jh

jh said...

under perfect communism that one drink would be a 1956 beaujolais
with sparkling water on the side

and the catholics would sing

voila voila!

J said...

the boy in the picture's a christian, unlike you, Kirly or yr meyer lansky pals

Kirby Olson said...

Stu revived the Penn State thread and accuses me of being like Duke 88 in my rush to judgment. Please weigh in.

 
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